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Talk:+X% Healing Received Bug
But Shapeshifters and Arcane Warriors would be exempt from this "bug", wouldn't they be not? Both will have higher spellpower than warriors and both specializations sacrifice some of their casting capabilities to become capable fighters. Is it possible that this mod may have been made exclusively for them? Arcane Warriors I can understand, but why Shapeshifters? Their ability to shapechange into various forms does not grant them any permanent bonus to strength: they still cannot use the majority of these items (unless you decide to go with a strength build, that is - but in this case the shapeshifter will end up with warrior-like stats: high strength, low magic). Anyway, concerning Arcane Warriors: the effect of this mod is still miniscule in their case (tested with 90 spellpower 20 lvl AW). I encourage you to test it yourself (and update the article, if necessary), since I have no precise numbers written down. Currently, I'm 100% positive the property is badly bugged, and not just AW-oriented. On a side note: I admit a whole item property designed specifically for the most ridiculously overpowered (to the point of being totally game-breaking) specialization in DA:O sure sounds like a lot of fun :) IN 20:29, February 15, 2010 (UTC) Shapeshifters need to raise both their magic and strength. They need magic to improve the attributes of their forms and improve their spellcasting, and they need to pump up strength so their forms do high damage. Recently it's been discovered that the developers actually anticipated that Shapeshifters would go strength build, because you get a fat +10 bonus to armor as soon as your base armor exceeds that of your Bear Form's. Ok then I'll try and test the mod on a Shapeshifter, I doubt the results would be dissimilar though. AW's are not overpowered at all, it's been heavily discussed in the Dragon Age boards. It's just very, very good at soloing. Two mages with Force Field and a tanker with Taunt, that's ''overpowered and totally game-breaking. Very, very good to the effect he doesn't need any party at all to be overpowered, you mean? :) I don't think any discussion on Dragon Age boards (I assume you mean the BioWare Social Network forums), with all due respect, can change my opinion on the subject. My eyes (and, to some extent, my brains) are telling me unequivocally the mages as a class are much too powerful, but the AW specialization makes the rest of the bunch look tame by comparison. Your example of two mages (prior to patches it was one mage, indeed) + a tank with Taunt is justified to some degree. Yet please note such a party would have two redeeming qualities the AW wouldn't: (a) it's a party, damn it! its being overpowered stems from synergy, albeit a very basic one, while AW just gets idiotically powerful bonuses from his sustainables and passives, quickly becoming a practically untouchable killing machine without sacrificing much of casting potential; (b) the AI on Nightmare is not that linear in threat department: it won't attack your Force Field'ed tank for 18 s non-stop while your ranged party members batter it with heavy-damage spells or archery talents (unless you generate less than 400-500 threat over 18 s duration, which is highly unrealistic). Let's say I made a mistake of optimizing my very first party by making my PC an AW, as well as taking in both Morrigan and Wynne. As ignorant as I was back then in respect to game mechanics, it was my easiest Nightmare playthrough by a long shot: the AW just auto-attacked everything to death in a matter of seconds (or minutes, in several cases like the High Dragon or Gaxkang - but the result was essentially the same). So yeah, I do have some experience with this broken specialization - a traumatic one, indeed :) IMHO, the only plausible way to make playing AW remotely challenging is soloing Nightmare. At least, he'll need to resort to something different from just auto-attacking everything in sight. Sometimes. Hopefully :) IN 04:15, February 16, 2010 (UTC) There is a difference between solo gameplay and party gameplay. Just because a class is very powerful in solo doesn't make it as effective in a party, especially in a game where equipment sets are not infinite. "Doesn't need party" doesn't cut it because you ''do have a party. Ease of use doesn't make something overpowered either, as long as a reliable setup exists that allows you to get better results. And there are. As these setups and and powerful combinations are slowly being discovered and brought to light, people in the boards are slowly beginning to wonder if taking AW is really worth it. Those are your experiences. YMMV. In my book, it's definitely not worth it. It just ruins the challenge. Simply put: on one hand, there are several cleverly overpowered builds that can get excessively powerful benefiting from certain ability/gear/party synergies; on the other hand, there exists one stupidly overpowered specialization allowing even an intellectually challenged gorilla to auto-attack through the game upon reaching level 7 and to the very end. If I would be forced to choose my poison, I would have definitely gone with the former. Anyway, there is no real disagreement between us :) I agree AW does not merge well with the party, I agree all of his advantages are super-obvious and... well, crude, if you get my drift, I agree AW-less parties are both more enjoyable (by default, as anything beats auto-attack in this department!) and, with a modicum of strategic thinking, more effective. I just don't like a good old concept (after all, AW is your typical Elf Fighter/Mage kit imported from D&D) being realized like this. Of course, I'm assured BioWare devs did not do that intentionally - balance problems in large RPG systems are unavoidable. IN 16:58, February 16, 2010 (UTC) ...which brings me back to the results of my testing. Confirmed, no noticeable effect on a Shapeshifter with 50-70 spellpower in both human/alternative forms. Reverted edit by 86.23.100.129 Note: In theory, an Arcane Warrior with their naturally higher Spellpower, built in a tanking role and therefore being frequently healed, would benefit a great deal from this bug as it appears to use the spellpower of the one wearing it. Please refrain from inserting theoretical assumptions into the main body of the article. If you wish to discuss theory, there is a Talk page for it. Actually, that hypothesis was previously tested with lvl 20 Arcane Warrior, ~100 SP. The effect was greater than on Alistair, yet still nothing to write home about (+6 healing for AW, for example, in place of +1 for Alistair). The formula does take into account the SP of the recipient, that much is clear, but the proportion is very unfavorable (something like SP*0.05, I'd say). IN 18:08, February 27, 2010 (UTC) Fix? ''Is there any fix on the way? Is bioware aware of the problem? '' These questions should be addressed to BioWare, I assume :) As far as I know, the devs monitor the bugs found by the gaming community and do their best to fix them, given limited human resources. Let's hope this issue will be solved in DA:O - Awakening. ''Does this bug affect 360 as well as console? '' I don't see why it wouldn't, but the only way to answer this question for certain is to test some of the '+X% to healing' gear on Xbox. IN 23:33, February 27, 2010 (UTC) Unofficial Fix Available There is an unofficial fix available from Dragonagenexus at https://www.nexusmods.com/dragonage/mods/4671. I would put it in the main article, but I'm not sure if unofficial patches are allowed. :Well, of course they are allowed. It's not software counterfeit, it's not piracy. However, since it's not an official BioWare product, it may interfere with further updates (and I'm not sure it's compatible with DAA -- a lot of mods is not). In fact, there are unofficial fixes for many major mechanics bugs -- but the vast majority of the people play vanilla DA:O/DAA (not to speak of console users, who have no other option), and since the majority is the target group of DA Wiki, it's wiser to leave such links on Talk page, indeed. I'm currently thinking about creating a separate page for unofficial bug fixes, though. IN 03:18, March 25, 2010 (UTC) ::I think the link should definitely go in the main article. IMHO if a bug is noteworthy enough to have it's very own dedicated page on the Wiki, then I believe it's the Wiki's responsibility to inform people of the availability of a fix. Here's what I propose: a link is added to the article which is clearly labelled as an Unofficial Mod for the PC version. I know I would have been delighted at the sight of such a link. If anyone reading the article is a console user (or just stubbornly refuses to use mods) then they can simply ignore the link. Either way, they'll leave the article better informed as to the state of the bug, having the knowledge that a fix does exist. --Ineffable0ne (talk) 16:17, June 17, 2010 (UTC) :::Does anyone oppose my making the above edit? (btw, I think a separate page for unofficial fixes is a great idea - when it's done the link could point there instead;-) --Ineffable0ne (talk) 06:52, June 22, 2010 (UTC) ::::At some point, someone changed the link from the original mentioned at the top of this discussion (file 573 on DA Nexus) to one on the BioWare site. They are diffeent mods, made by different people. I would normally leave this sort of thing alone, but I changed it back because the one on the BioWare social site is bugged. I DL'd that one based on recommendation from this article 2-3 days ago, and only now did I get to the point in the story whwere I discovered the bug. I was baffled at first, but by painstakingly deleting one mod at a time, restoring, then deleting the next one, I found it to be faulty. It has a bug that causes the Chanter and her Chanter's Board in Redclife to never appear after completing the main quest in Redcliffe. Uninstalling the mod and then changing areas (into the Chantry and back out) made it reappear. The one on DA Nexus is definitely the safer bet. I tested it, and it doesn't have THAT bug at least. <3 Aisynia (talk) 20:41, October 6, 2010 (UTC) :::::Just a point of clarification, the bug you experienced isn't specifically due to the mod, but rather a limitation within the scripting engine that crops up when you have too many mods installed that use eventmanager. Unfortunately there really is no way around it, as eventmanager is critical to allow compatibility between mods.Gastank (talk) 22:47, October 6, 2010 (UTC) ::::Interesting, but why then would deleting one, and immediately installing the other one not cause the same issue? <3 Aisynia (talk) 07:08, October 7, 2010 (UTC) Possibly silly question This may seem like a stupid question but with all the bugs it seems anything is possible: If a mage wears +healing gear does it affect the heals they cast on party members who are not wearing +heal gear? The editor words the attribute as "increase healing spells" rather than healing received. (talk) 12:45, May 31, 2010 (UTC) Gideon The effect is "+% healing effects RECEIVED", therefore it affects the recipient of healing effects who is wearing the gear, not a Mage casting a heal on someone else while wearing the item(s). GlassDeviant (talk) 18:28, November 6, 2013 (UTC) Patch 1.04 Any solution for this bug? Misconceptions about the bug There's a lot of misconceptions here about this bug, and the information regarding it given on the article page was incorrect. The bug lies in a coding error. The healing code assumes that the "% healing received" defaults to 100 for a new character with no +heal equipment. Every new piece of +heal equipment would add to this 100, thus Lifegiver would make it 120. What's actually happening is that new characters are coded with the "% healing received" set to 1.0, not 100. Lifegiver then makes the value 21, not 120. And when the healing code tries to process this, it sees that the "% healing received" is below the minimum value of 100, thus it uses 100 and the +heal equipment has no effect. If somehow you were able to get enough +heal equipment to hit +99%, then every value above that would be adding to your healing received. This has absolutely nothing to do with the character's spellpower. Poultices and devour take the caster's spellpower into account BY DEFAULT. It even says on the in-game description that Magic increases health poultices. Having more or less spellpower DOES NOT affect this bug at all. If for some reason you don't want to install the 'unofficial fix' at the link given on the article page, it is possible to manually fix all your characters by editing your saved game using the toolset. Remember to backup first! #Open your savegame.das #Expand SAVEGAME_PLAYERCHAR -> SAVEGAME_PLAYERCHAR_CHAR -> SAVEGAME_CREATURE_STATS -> SAVEGAME_STATLIST #Start expanding every number where the VALUE column reads ATTR until you see SAVEGAME_STATPROPERTY_INDEX = 51 (It will most likely be around the high 20s) #STRUCT should be ATTR, SAVEGAME_STATPROPERTY_BASE should be 1, and SAVEGAME_STATPROPERTY_MODIFIER should equal the total +heal you have equipped #Changed SAVEGAME_STATPROPERTY_BASE to 100 #Expand SAVEGAME_PARTYLIST -> SAVEGAME_PARTYPOOLMEMBERS #For each number expand to SAVEGAME_CREATURE_STATS -> SAVEGAME_STATLIST #Repeat step #3 #Repeat step #7 & #8 for each party member Gastank (talk) 22:47, October 6, 2010 (UTC)